Faith Meets Love in Christian Cafe’s Journey

In today’s interview, we’re joined by Sam Moorcroft, the President and Co-Founder of ChristianCafe.com. This unique online platform, founded in 1999, stands out in the digital dating arena for its commitment to connecting Christian singles around the world. With a focus on aligning with Christian values and fostering meaningful relationships, ChristianCafe.com has carved a niche in the online dating industry. Sam brings his rich experience and deep understanding of the challenges and triumphs of running a faith-based dating service. Join us as we explore the journey, ethos, and future vision of ChristianCafe.com through the eyes of one of its pioneering leaders.

The Vision Behind Christian Cafe

SBS – What inspired you to create a dating site specifically for Christian singles?

Sam – One of the primary reasons I started it in the Christian market is that I understand it as I grew up in it. I’m Canadian, but we Canadians have a unique relationship with our American cousins and understand them very well. Until recently, they were our biggest trading partner. I think that’s been superseded by China. Still, we have a very close relationship, and many Canadians do very well business-wise with the US.

There’s also my personal reason for doing it. I lived in Vancouver on Canada’s west coast. I’d finished a master’s degree in business in Canada and moved out to Vancouver. There, I had a relationship with a young lady. That relationship didn’t work out for whatever reason, and I found myself moving back east to get away from everything. I took a job in Toronto. It was a good job offer, but I moved also because of the relationship. This was back in 1997. I worked for a computer company as a project manager. Then, they lost their biggest client, a company from New York City, and that meant they lost half their business overnight because they only had two major customers. My brother, who’d helped me get the job, and I, along with 20% of the company, were laid off. 

Toronto is Canada’s biggest city. The Greater Toronto area, including surrounding areas, now has about 6 million people. It may be small by global standards, but for us, it’s huge. So, I found myself in a city where I knew three people and was unemployed. I spent all this money to move out here to take this job, so I had to look for work.

I was looking at the job boards online of the day (which were pretty primitive), and then I discovered these dating services. Because I was single and unemployed, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I started joining various services. Most of them would be non-religious, like Match.com, for example, or there was a site called American Singles. Then, I discovered some Christian ones. I started to meet women locally (in the Toronto area) and all over the United States.

My business mind went off, and I said, “There’s an opportunity here.” When I was thinking about what to do with myself, a friend of mine said, “Look, all you do is complain all day about these dating services and how much better you could do if you were running them, so there’s your business.” With my brother, I decided to do a niche market (Christian) because I understand it. From a business point of view, I knew there was a lot of competition in doing a generic site where it’s one size fits all. I knew I couldn’t do it and survive, but if I did a niche market, it’d be much easier. We started in 1998 and launched Christian Cafe at the end of February 1999. We’ll be online for 25 years next month.

Upholding Christian Values

SBS – How do you ensure Christian Cafe aligns with Christian values and principles?

Sam – It’s an interesting question; the short answer is that the members define that for themselves. When we first started, I noticed that some of my competitors would have doctrinal statements. You would have to agree that you were a believer and agreed to certain principles (like the Apostles’ Creed or the Nicene Creed). I thought it wasn’t my job to define what a Christian is. That’s between them and God. The purpose of us is to connect people who say they’re Christians and want to meet other single people of shared faith. In terms of the level of faith, we’ll give them options to pick how involved they are in their local church and what denomination they are (baptist, evangelical, catholic, orthodox, etc.). We’ll let them select those, and then they can search based on those criteria.

We initially thought our market would be local. I went around to all the churches in the Toronto area (hundreds of them), and when we launched, I quickly found that the vast majority of our market was American (about 75%). They very quickly skewed to those who are very conservative and protestant. In America, you would call that evangelical, fundamentalist,  nondenominational, or just Christian. So, from the beginning, we focused our marketing efforts on America.

That has since changed as we started adding more from other Anglo countries (the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand) as well as English-speaking countries with Christian populations (like the Philippines, Singapore, South Korea, and South Africa) and people who can speak English but are from places like Brazil or Germany, etc. Over time, our market shifted, and today, it’s about half American, maybe 15% Canadian. If you add the Anglo countries, you’re looking at about 75% or 80% of the Anglo market, and the rest would be international.

In terms of what a Christian is, we never defined it, but we just said to our members that they have to conduct themselves in a “Christian manner” — what we all consider to be decent.

We don’t restrict our membership to Christians, but the reality is that anybody outside of that market won’t be able to meet someone. We’ll get people who aren’t very faithful. They believe in God, go to church twice a year, maybe Christmas, maybe Easter, and that’s it. They may otherwise adhere to Christian principles, but they’re not believers. I call them cultural Christians. They leave pretty quickly and go to Match or eHarmony or some other generic dating site because it’s pretty obvious that faith is a very high priority for our members. For most people, it’s number one, so when they want to meet somebody, they want somebody who shares their faith and values — and that’s why they come to us and not someone else. We don’t define it. It defines itself.

We kick out people who are abusing the system. That’s a very small number, but it exists. 

Building and Sustaining Engagement

SBS – Can you describe the process of building and maintaining a strong and engaged community in Christian Cafe?

Sam – Yeah, and our advantage was starting so long ago. It was the infant years of the World Wide Web. The World Wide Web didn’t even come into existence until the mid-90s. I was using sites before, and there were numerous sites out there. I think I once counted there were 50 different Christian dating sites. Virtually all of those have vanished. I’m not sure what we could say we did right or wrong. But for example, ad costs were super cheap. Long before Google Ads, there was a site called goto.com, which then became Overture, which was bought by Yahoo, which became Yahoo search marketing. Then Google entered the market.

Back then, I could bid on a keyword like “Christian singles.” That phrase paid three cents a click (now, you’re paying $3), so we had the advantage of being the first movers. We were able to get in and establish a foothold pretty quickly.

We also had the benefit of having staff in the early years who are still with me today. By the way, my average tenure is over 20 years. I hired my most recent employee in 2002. The original programmer is still here. All of my employees are multitalented. I’ve got programmers who know software, hardware, networking, cloud stuff, mobile, Android, Apple, etc. I had the advantage of having some very clever and knowledgeable people start with me. Then, as technologies evolved, they learned it.

For many of my staff, it’s their passion outside of work. This is what they do anyway. For example, the wife of my lead programmer ran a charity in Toronto to keep our waterways clean from pollution. They were funded by sponsors, and he would, just for fun, build apps for them to market their services. At one point, in exchange for a major bank donating, he agreed to help build them a banking app. So, I had guys whose passion was what they did for me. They’d be doing something similar on their own time anyway. That helped because I know that one of my few competitors has all of his programming outsourced to India, so he’s spending a lot more money paying multiple programmers to do what one of my guys can do. He’s also still hosting his servers.

We migrated to the Cloud back in 2012, like with Amazon. We did a lot of cutting-edge things. We got a grant from the Canadian government for over $100,000 because we built Apple’s first dating app. I believe there was no other dating app, and we were the first back in 2010. In other words, we’ve had what many others didn’t. We had the first-mover advantage.

I would like to say that, as Christians, we believe that we have God’s favor with how things align. When I look back on my life at how this worked business-wise and how everything had to align for me to have a relationship that didn’t work out, move to a new city, get laid off, etc. — from a faith perspective, I would say that’s the number one. But everything else we did has aligned to the point where if you fast forward to today, we have such a niche foothold that probably three-quarters of our traffic daily is coming in from people who already know us (friends of friends) or type-ins as we call them. They just go online and type in www.christiancafe.com. We’re listed everywhere online. You can find us all over the place and in Google Ads.

We’ve been now priced out of that market just because I’m not spending $3 a click when my break even is a dollar. Other companies do that. It’s a loss leader for them. I think it’s a silly strategy. Our main competitor, Christian Mingle, is bankrupt. Their stock ceased trading in Germany last year. They went from a high of $8 or $9 pre-COVID to zero. They’ve just done a full restructuring of the parent company because, for years and years, they were spending $500 to make $100, and they had the luxury of doing that because they’re publicly traded. I don’t. I’m a privately owned business, and we must make more money than we spend. We’ve had to run our business on business principles and common sense, whereas they just ran it for many other reasons. 

Balancing Profit and Christian Ethics

SBS – How do you balance the need for having profit with the desire to provide a service that aligns with Christian ethics?

Sam – Well, the two go hand in hand. If you go back to biblical values, there’s so much business in the Bible and many lessons you can learn from it. So, if you’re operating as a Christian, according to biblical values, you will prosper. That’s not a promise per se, and that’s not why you do things. But you will succeed if you’re honest, have integrity, work hard, use your brains, educate yourself, adapt as things change, and treat your staff right.

I remember that 16 or 17 years ago, Christian Mingle wanted to buy us. We flew out to LA. I brought my lead programmer and my brother, my silent business partner (he hasn’t had anything to do with the business in over two decades aside from being an investor). The three of us were out there talking to this company. We went out for dinner afterwards. My brother went to the washroom, and my programmer looked at me and he said, “You know, I’m never leaving you.” I said I kind of figured he wasn’t. He asked, “But you want to know why?” I said, “No. Tell me, I’m curious.” He said it was because of the way I treated him. He didn’t mention money, working hours, or what we do. It was because of how he was treated. 

In my previous life, I worked for various forestry companies in between my university years, planting trees. Forestry is one of Canada’s biggest industries (pulp and paper), and there’s a huge industry for planting trees because, by law, if a forest company cuts down a tree, they have to plant a new one (or two), so they will hire students to plant trees. I initially worked as a tree planter at a company and moved to a different one as a foreman. Every summer, I had anywhere from 25 to 50 or 60 people working for me, so I got to understand managing people, which is much different than managing projects.

I learned that employees want to know that you care about them. So many companies today don’t, and that’s why employees don’t have any loyalty. They’ll work for a corporation for 25 years, and the corporations might want to go in a different direction. They lay them off, giving them a watch or something and the minimum legal amount required for severance.

If you treat your employees well, they will return the favor ten times. I do it because I want to. I genuinely like my staff, and I want to treat them well. But also, from a business perspective, your productivity is crazy high, and the return on your investment is great. Also, it’s very expensive to bring someone new in. It’s also upsetting to the whole team because you’ve got to integrate somebody else in. We’re a small company, so bringing in new people is more difficult. 

When I was doing my tree planning job, my boss used to hire people who shouldn’t have been hired, and I would have to lay them off. I said, “I’m going to come back, but on condition that I do the hiring for you.” In that industry, we would have anywhere from 30% to 50% of our planters leave, and then you’re scrambling to find somebody else to bring in before the contract ends. When I did the hiring, I had no turnover. I made sure to hire the right people the first time, and then they never left and would return year after year.

So, I already knew human nature psychology, how to treat people, and how I want to be treated. In return, I can call my lead programmer at two in the morning on a Tuesday and say, “We’ve got a problem,” he gets out of bed and fixes the problem. I can call him on a weekend or anytime. 

We all work remotely, which they also like. We had an office for many years, and about twelve years ago, nobody was going to it, including me, because we were already virtual long before the virtual work-from-home was the thing. I asked my guys, “Do you want me to renew the lease on the office?” They said, “Why? You’re not going, and neither are we. Let’s move our servers into the cloud. Let’s work remotely.” We did that.

I remember one year, I had an employee who was originally from mainland China, and he asked if he could go to China for the summer because he wanted to show his son his culture and heritage. I said, “Yeah, I don’t care, as long as you’re available.” The only difference was the 12-hour time difference. As it turned out, he was staying in a remote village in a tropical part of China, and they didn’t have air conditioning, so he could only work late at night because it was cooler at night, which, coincidentally, was daytime for us. He would start working at 9pm, which was 9am for us.

Another time, my lead programmer was in Japan on a working vacation with his wife, and he was coding on a Japanese bullet train from Tokyo to wherever. Also, my wife is originally from Brazil (she’s been here 25 years now), and we go to Brazil every year. In fact, we are going to Brazil at the end of this February 2024. We can all work remotely.

On a slightly tangential note but relevant to what we do, when I started my dating service, people said, “You’re doing this because you’re single and want to meet somebody.” I said, “That’s true, but I’m not building my business to meet somebody. I’m building it because I think it’s a good business idea.” Along the way, on one of the Christian sites I got my inspiration from (which no longer exists), a young lady wrote to me while I was doing one of the forestry jobs. She was a Canadian teaching English in Korea, but she was returning to the Toronto area. She said, “I’m a Christian. I’m interested in meeting new people. I’m not necessarily interested in a relationship. Do you want to get together?” We got together and hit it off as friends.

The following summer, I got this same forestry job again, as I needed money to raise for my new business because we didn’t want outside financing. My brother got a job as a financial analyst with Federal Express. Then he went to PricewaterhouseCoopers for a consulting job, and I raised all this money doing this forestry job. Anyway, the following summer, I got the same contract. I needed one more person, so I contacted her and said, “I know you grew up on a farm. You like this kind of work. Do you want to work for me?” She said, “I’d like to, except that I’m now teaching English in Toronto, but I have a student who needs a job.” I offered that young lady a job, and, long story short, we’ve been married for 20 years, and we have five kids.

My wife, incidentally, is my chief marketer. She came to work for me after our forestry job. I said, “What are your plans in Canada?” She was here as a student practicing her English. She said, “I’m not sure. I’d like a master’s degree to work with the environment and animals.” She loved working with wolves, for example. I said, “Well, in the meantime, I need someone to help with this new business.” She said she could do the customer service for me. I asked her about her English reading and writing skills; she said they were pretty good.

After the first couple of days, she asked what else she could do. I said, “I don’t know. What do you think?” She said, “I think you got a great product and service, but I don’t think anybody knows who you are. I can’t find you anywhere online.” I looked at her and said, “You know how to do search engine marketing?” This is back when search engine marketing wasn’t a thing. She said, “No, but I’ll learn.” She had done her undergraduate degree in business at a good university in Brazil, and she’d studied this new thing called the internet. She had to learn it herself because it was being invented every day. There were no services that you could buy. There were no software packages. Google was barely online. There was Yahoo, AltaVista, AOL, Netscape…

Anyway, because of her, we got it off the ground. Many of our early successes came from her efforts, meaning people who met and matched on our website and got married. Just to put it in perspective, we estimate we’ve had over 25,000 marriages, so it clearly works. We’ve met some of them in person. Unfortunately, we can’t meet most of them because they don’t live where we live, but we’ve met people globally. We’ve been traveling to different places, and we’ve bumped into people. Before you know it, they say, “Wait a minute, what website? Oh, we’ve been married and met on your website.” A couple of weeks ago, my wife was emailing somebody in Australia who’s a Filipina, raised in Australia since she was five, and met a Canadian who now lives in Australia. She spoke to them to get a testimonial. That woman is pregnant with child number seven. Not everybody has a big family, but that’s an example of success. 

Spreading the Word

SBS – What are the most effective marketing strategies for attracting new users?

Sam – Probably 25% of our traffic comes from marketing. We do everything: Google Ads, Bing, and a ton of affiliate marketing (not just with major networks like Commission Junction or Pepperjam, but we also have affiliates we work with directly who share our revenue).

Our site is unique amongst all dating sites when people come in because we don’t give people a permanent free trial. If you join Match, they will allow you to create an account and show you matches, but if you want to interact with anybody, you have to pay. We give you the same access, virtually, as a paid member for the first seven days or ten days if you post a photo or photos, which we highly encourage. We treat you like you paid for those first ten days but cut you off afterward.

You can control your matches on www.ChristianCafe.com, just like on Match. So, our users search for people they want, unlike eHarmony, where they push matches at you. We attract a lot through companies who share paid subscriber revenue with us. When somebody comes in and makes a payment, and it comes from a specific source, that company gets a cut of the revenue (typically 40% for the lifetime of that member). We include renewals. Many dating services will pay you a good amount the first time, and then they don’t pay you after. We pay you continually.

We also do a lot of what we call cost per lead or cost per acquisition deals, where various publishing networks will advertise our offer to their publishers, who then push our offer to their members, and then we pay them so many dollars per free trial lead. It’s up to us then to try to convert them. We don’t do any deals that are CPM (cost per thousand impressions). We haven’t done that in many, many years. That’s us taking all the risk, and we want to share the risk with the advertiser. We’re happy to meet them halfway if they’re convinced that they’ve got our market in their network.

We also do a ton of SEO work. One of the things that Google wants more than anything is content. They want backlinks and content. One of my wife’s main jobs is writing content to rank high for specific long-tail search results, like, for example, “Austin, Texas Christian singles.” We want to rank those very high because you may only get a few leads or profiles daily. But if you’ve got dozens and dozens and dozens of those, those all add up to be as effective as typing in “Christian dating,” “Christian singles,” “Christian dating service,” or “single Christians.”  These examples are some of the top keywords that are too expensive for us to bid on and get ranked on the first page of results on Google.

Lately, we’ve been using AI a lot. We’re learning how to navigate it. We don’t use it to write stuff for the site; we use it to write things for us, and then we go in to correct it because it’s still not great. It is the same with images and getting different advice and things. It’s not just us. I know other dating sites and other companies in general are using it. AI is amazing, even though it’s primitive compared to where it will go. It’s a great tool because you can tell it, “Write me an article on such and such, and I want you to include three verses from the Bible, and I want you to reference this and that.” It does that, and then you have to go through it because it’s clunky, it’s not smooth. You work off of it, kind of like a sculpture. You’ve got the perfect piece of marble; you must sculpt it, but you’ve got the groundwork done. We find that to be tremendously helpful.

Some dating sites are exploring AI matching, where they will feed all the data points of their different members and see if they can suggest different matches. That’s also a possibility. But as technology changes, we’re doing our best to stay updated. Everybody plays catch up just because technology is changing so quickly. However, the fact remains that people don’t know how to have romantic relationships anymore. Hollywood gives them a distorted version. Their attention span is lower. They’re used to instant everything, like drive-throughs, getting your dry cleaning done in an hour, or Amazon deliveries coming tomorrow. Relationships don’t work like that. So, as long as people can’t figure out how to have a relationship, there’ll be a business model for what we do. It doesn’t mean we’ll be doing it forever. I hope to do this for another 25 years. However, we may not be doing it, but the demand is increasing. It’s not decreasing. 

Safety First

SBS – What strategies have you implemented for a safe and secure online environment for your users?

Sam – There has always been a problem with scammers, like the traditional Nigerian prince scam (“I’ve got $10 million. I’m from Nigeria, and I’m a prince, and I need to get the money out of the country”). We have a lot of scams from Eastern Europe (“I’m a 22-year-old supermodel. I look great in lingerie and high heels, and I want to date this 60-year-old guy in a trailer in Kentucky. But I need you to give me money for a visa”). That kind of stuff is always around. It’s just gotten worse.

In fact, about a decade ago, it was getting so bad that we were losing business because we couldn’t get rid of them. It was like playing whack-a-mole. We built an anti-scammer tool that is behavioral-based. We built it internally because there wasn’t something that existed at the time. I don’t want to say too much because I never want to tip anybody off. But the long and the short of it is we kill them, but we don’t tell them they’re dead. Remember the movie The Sixth Sense with Bruce Willis? We kill them, but we don’t tell them they’re dead, so they still think they’re active. That’s been so effective that the scammers know it exists a decade later, but they can’t figure it out. These are not just average scammers. These are crime syndicates. These are organized businesses in cube farms in Lagos, London, Toronto, Mumbai, or wherever. It’s a persistent problem.

Early on, we recognized that we have dedicated members who feel passionately about what we do. It’s more than just meeting somebody. They are part of a community because we have different forums where people can go, and they can pick any topic they want, as long as it’s not obscene or offensive. It doesn’t have to be about dating. These people have been with us for years and years, and we thought, why don’t we recruit them as volunteers and ask them to police the website? Because, they were doing it anyway. So, we have a whole network of volunteers with free access in exchange for finding abuse, getting rid of it, and finding suspicious photos. With the naked eye, we’re seeing increasing AI photos. It’s obvious it’s a computer. They will get better and better to the point where we can’t tell. We’ll have to deal with that when the time comes. But we have a whole network of volunteers globally so that when we’re sleeping in North America, we’ve got, for example, someone in Brisbane, Australia, who’s in his daytime. He’s zapping them during our nighttime so we don’t wake up to many complaints.

Any member can report somebody, and it’s negative when you get points against you. It’s like demerit points on your driver’s license. If the police pull you over, at least in Canada and the US, points are bad. You don’t want points in your license. So, we have members that can flag accounts and report them. We have staff review them. Some of our members are empowered to automatically zap them with one click.

Same with photos. We get people to help us approve photos. The only thing that we prescreen is photos. We don’t prescreen profiles. Our back-end security systems prescreen things for fraud. The only thing we view is photos because they give us a lot of insight into what’s abusive and what’s not (and I don’t mean naked; I mean somebody trying to scam). They’re very clever. It used to be obvious porn photos. Okay, I get it. It’s porn. It’s fake. Now, it’s like this girl next door, but there’s something that only your instinct tells you. Like a customs guy, when someone comes across the border, he has some instinct and can read your body language and tell. The same thing applies to us. We want to crop out white space, or they’re in the distance, and you can’t see them, so we want to zoom in and fix it. We also have photo volunteers who are processing photos right now. For any problem or questions they have, they’ll have a member of our staff look at it.

So, working with our members, we found it was a terrific resource, and it’s free. They want to do it. They want a better experience. We want a better experience for what we do and for business reasons. And so it’s a win-win for everybody. 

Threats change continually. Lately, I’ve noticed a bunch of polygamous people coming in, and they want another wife. Okay, buddy, it’s not up to me to decide what you want to do with your life, but just on a legal basis, it’s illegal (in the Western world, at least). It’s called bigamy, and you can’t do it. I don’t want to get into a biblical argument with you about polygamy. If you want to go to a polygamous website, they do exist. This guy has been bugging us about how he wants to pay us. He’s married, looking for another wife, and asks why we won’t let him pay. Buddy, what part of “this is illegal” do I have to tell you? It also goes against the core beliefs of our website. And Biblically, we don’t agree with it.

Future Perspectives

SBS – How do you see yourself and your service in the next ten or 20 years?

Sam – I think matching, the core business of connecting people, in our case of faith for romance, marriage, etc., will never change because that will always be in demand. How we do it might change. AI is going to play an increasing role.

Video was the big thing. With full motion 5G, we can do video chats and stuff, but we’ve just found, particularly for women, that they don’t want to do it. They don’t want to put their face forward because they want to put their makeup on and look good. The guy wants almost like a date. So, that’s not been a threat per se, even though other sites have been doing it, some successfully, some not.

In the future, I see hologram-type things where you can put on a headset and go on a virtual date. One of the downsides, or the Achilles’ heel of our business, is that the internet brings the world to your desktop or phone but doesn’t bring people together geographically. You might find the perfect person, but they live far away. It’s not always practical. Air travel is relatively cheap, and you could meet in the middle. But if you could go out on a date and do it virtually, where the person is either an avatar or fully rendered, that would be easier than flying out and finding out that the chemistry is not there. That’s one example.

As for where the market’s going besides the core thing of what we do, nobody knows. If I knew, I’d be rich. I’d be a billionaire if, back in 2009, I knew where Bitcoin would go. Now, I do know the competition is always increasing. We always have new entrants, not just generally but in our niche. I want to tell them not to take their life savings and do this because it won’t work. They’ll let me know I’m a competitor, and that’s why I’m saying it. But the reality is, it’s too late unless you come up with a new way to connect people (which is entirely possible). It’s too hard to get into this business. You need the critical mass, the expertise that you can only get from doing this for so long, the intuition, etc. I’ll come up with an idea, and one of my brothers, who’s my operations manager, will already be thinking ten different directions about how this is going to be positive and what we have to change. Somebody new doesn’t have that insight because they haven’t had the experience.

We’ve had a lot of failures over the years. We’ve launched multiple other niches that have failed. We had a Jewish site for over 20 years. It still exists, but it’s basically inactive. We had a Brazilian site in Portuguese. We had a generic site (non-religious). None of them worked, but we learned a lot. We’ve lost lots and lots of money trying different ways of promoting ourselves. We even had a marriage contest. We hired a public relations person and had a contest where people who’d met somebody on our website would apply to win a free wedding. We had a free wedding, a whole thing organized in Washington, DC, almost 20 years ago. It didn’t make money for us. We’ve learned the hard way what to do with our money and how to spend it wisely. New entrants don’t know how to do that. So, unless the wheel is reinvented — which is possible because we don’t know the future — it’s too hard to do this.

I’m not saying I can’t be done, and I don’t want to sound like I have no threats. I lose sleep over threats because they’re continual. We have majors like Match coming into our niche with their version of Christian dating apps. They have resources that we don’t have. They earn well over a billion dollars a year, including Tinder. So, can they come after my tiny little company and be a threat? Of course. But we’re like the bumblebee. Scientists said their wingspan was too small, and they couldn’t fly mathematically. But no one told the bumblebee, so he’s flying anyway. We’re kind of like that. We’re this little guy that takes the crumbs. We make a business. We also have a ministry; we’ve had tens of thousands of people getting married and many more romantic connections. So, as long as there’s a need for us, we’ll continue to provide it.